Like the 60’s Dylan song, “the times they are a’ changing.” Since GA and the PUP report, all presbyteries must take steps to clarify their standards for examining candidates and ordinands and their standards for clergy transferring into their boundaries. Some presbyteries have already taken this step: an example is the document “Essential Tenets” put together by San Diego Presbytery. They adopted this in 2003. Several presbyteries, usually those leaning toward a more conservative theology and politics, have adopted or “co-opted” this document as a standard. This 30 page document includes six pages of recommended questions for candidates, and is quite clear about theological positions that it does not affirm. Here’s a link to that document: http://www.presbyterysd.org/reports/etrdmaster.pdf
In Cascades Presbytery, Presbytery Council held a brief hearing on September 16, inviting comments and viewpoints on a motion made at June presbytery changing the process of how candidates and incoming clergy should be examined. Following the hearing, the council will begin work on preparing its recommendation to be presented to presbytery in November. I expect that this same process is going on in most presbyteries. The process, in Cascades and elsewhere, is very political, and there are several competing agendas at work. The hearing itself went very well, with good dialog and input from several points of view.
Since a lot of us reading this blog are PCUSA candidates, we need to know about these changing processes and standards, both in our own presbytery and in presbyteries we’re seeking calls in. The field has become more complicated to navigate (read that “dancing in a minefield”). Just because we’ve passed ords doesn’t mean we’re out of the woods yet. Congratulations to Heather, along with bandaids and an icepack for the bumps and bruises she picked up this weekend in her trials.
A couple of weeks ago I met with a subcommittee of COM in a presbytery in which I was interviewing. The examination was based on the San Diego “Essential Tenets” document—they’d told me to expect that about two weeks before the interview and emailed me a copy of the document (first time I’d seen it). The interview lasted about two hours, almost all taken up with theological questions from that document, plus additional questions that came out of the Trinity and PUP reports to GA. It was a hard session. Those of you who took Greg’s oral exams (I didn’t) may have had good practice for something like this.
Does anybody have updates on what’s happening on this in other presbyteries?
Peace and Blessings,
Bob
“If we couldn’t laugh we would all go insane”, Jimmy Buffett
“Let’s make the best of the situation” Eric Clapton
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3 comments:
I've been saving this for an appropriate time when I cool down a little, but since that doesn't seem to be happening....
As a member of Sacramento Presbytery (sigh) I can report that we are in sad, sad shape. After the "surprise" meeting when 4 resolutions were passed or as some are saying "railroaded in" the way for churches in this Presbytery has been basically cleared for churches to withhold money and leave if they so choose.
This Saturday at the regularly scheduled Presby meeting I understand that 4 people were examined and two were folks who are already ordained! I understand that at least one of them looking to transfer in was given a pretty hard time. (should we take comfort in the fact that it's not just us newbies?)
One of those examined was SFTS grad Susan Hill. And friend to many of us Carol Shallenburger, and interim extrodinare, decided to stay a member of Redwoods Presby and work in the bounds of Sac (I don't blame her a bit!)
I do not yet have the details of who said what or even what was decided but it's not all bad news. If you'd like to do some interesting reading check out the Sacramento Presbytery webpage www.sacpresby.org and read the letters sent by the Synod and Clifton Kirkpatrick to the Presbytery, as well as the Press release on the California courts descisions on property issues in So. Cal. All very interesting stuff. It gives me hope for the larger body.
Well I need to not write anymore now lest I get all worked up again.
Love to you all and hang in there the Church needs us!
okay dokay - lots of stuff like this going on around the country but in most places not getting a lot of traction.
For the news - Presbyterian Outlook is one of the best sources right now - www.pres-outlook.com
Everyone is working out what life means now. The recommendations of the Task Force Report which was adopted by GA in Birmingham this June is a two sided coin. By affirming the ultimate right of governing bodies to examine candidates on a case by case basis we not only allow some presbyteries to chose to ordain our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters but we also allow some presbyteries to chose not to accept those whom they deem not suitable for ministry.
There appears to be an emerging trend that conservatives are trying to exclude on the basis of atonement theology (Heather!) so if anyone is facing examination in the next few months it is probably good to have a comprehensive grip on the options and why we pick ours.*
While examinations may be brutal, if we have gotten to the point where a congregation has called us chances are very unlikely that a presbytery will turn us down. It would have to be a very angry and volitile presbytery to vote down a congregation's called candidate. If it does happen, then that's about as good a sign as it gets that we are better off continuing to seek than serving in that environment.
Resources are being considered for candidates facing trials of ordination. In general - the standard wisdeom remains: answer the question but then move on to what you want to talk about with confidence and passion.
The trial of ordination has always held the potentiality of great anguish. Twenty years ago I watched some brutal examinations from old cranks. I have heard stories from lots of folks for whom it felt like a squeaker.
The truth is - if you prepare in advance, (some have asked friends like the CPM or COM to examine as practice), and if the congregation works its side of the process almost anyone called will pass.
Anitra
*I heard one of those stories that ought to be true this weekend:
A candidate for ordination was being examined for her position on atonement theology. A grizzeled old HR gets up and said, "there are 12 positions on atonment theology, which one do you ascribe to?" The candidate thought for a moment, then answered, "Number 6."
A motion was made to immediately close the examination.
Reading all this today...
Thinking about that poor man who could only make sense of his world by killing 3 girls, then himself...
This seems like such a horrible way to claim as our process of bringing about the Kingdom of God. (Sorry for the sexist language, I've been reading lectionary.) I've been talking with a few of you about this situation in the PCUSA and the question remains: Should we recommend to those still in seminary that they take advantage of the offerings at PSR relating to LGBTQetc. theology and spirituality? It seems like it might be a good idea, depending on how closely your CPMs are following your transcripts. The idea is that with these classes, a more articulate response to some of these questions and questioners might be had. Why go into these battles with anything less than the best information and discernment?
Also, relating more to Heather’s post – how do you all feel about ‘less than unanimous’ votes for your ministry by the calling church? I have reservations about what that might mean for that community.
Neutral pulpit for me on the 28th!
Blessings to you all!
James
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